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Thread: We Need to Redefine "Marriage": What's in YOUR Marriage for ME (& the rest of America)?

  1. #1
    Member Roadie mythman's Avatar
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    We Need to Redefine "Marriage": What's in YOUR Marriage for ME (& the rest of America)?


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    When I say 'redefine marriage,' I don't mean "give 'marriage' a new definition; I mean 'authoritatively remind people of "what marriage is for".'

    This comes up because of a recent 10th Circuit Court-Ruling that Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional---reported by the Oklahoma Gazette. The article reports LGBTs complaining (or seeming to complain) that 'equal rights' somehow means 'adjusting my understanding of the world so that a "wrong" understanding earns one the same station as a "right" one.'

    The article then reports Gov. Mary Fallin's stance on it---that it's a state-rights matter, and the state handled it; and that it is NOT a federal-rights matter, so the federal-court is STEALING that decision from the state! And the religion-leaders say same-sex marriage isn't Biblical, but one could also say (in that vein) 'that mass-genocide is actually a mass exodus to Heaven!' (or not ... point is, the Bible's not about 'what the government should do').

    The LGBT-groups argue that 'it's not about state-rights, but human-rights.' Maybe it's the effect of the late hour on my mind, but my response to that is 'if you wanna talk about human-rights ... it's my right to--without fear of punishment or vengeance--harm people in whatever way I choose (since I HAVE died as the result of drivers' negligence).'

    But 'the legality of marriage' isn't a human-matter! If you and another person want to be life-partners, what difference does it make whether anyone recognizes your union? And human rights? What about my right not to recognize any marriage I don't witness?

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    In the end, the whole gay marriage thing is a storm in a teacup. The issue isn't making progress because the religious guys have essentially trademarked marriage and don't want gay people using that label. I think that if the gay marriage legalization movement were to focus on legalizing civil unions and giving those equal rights to marriage, there would be less pushback from the religious segments of society. Once the civil unions are equal in all but name, you can then change the name of the civil union to marriage.

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    Senior Member Yes Man troutski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayrockwell91 View Post
    In the end, the whole gay marriage thing is a storm in a teacup. The issue isn't making progress because the religious guys have essentially trademarked marriage and don't want gay people using that label. I think that if the gay marriage legalization movement were to focus on legalizing civil unions and giving those equal rights to marriage, there would be less pushback from the religious segments of society. Once the civil unions are equal in all but name, you can then change the name of the civil union to marriage.
    What? You're kidding, right? The gay marriage issue has made huge strides in the past year alone. Gay marriage bans are getting torn up and thrown out left and right. Religions haven't trademarked marriage either.

    If the legalization movement focuses on civil unions instead, then it's doing itself a huge injustice. Civil unions aren't equal to marriage no matter whether they give the same rights or not. If it's by a different name, then it's discrimination and unequal by its very nature, and you can't just change the name after the fact to mask that fact.

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    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by troutski View Post
    What? You're kidding, right? The gay marriage issue has made huge strides in the past year alone. Gay marriage bans are getting torn up and thrown out left and right. Religions haven't trademarked marriage either.

    If the legalization movement focuses on civil unions instead, then it's doing itself a huge injustice. Civil unions aren't equal to marriage no matter whether they give the same rights or not. If it's by a different name, then it's discrimination and unequal by its very nature, and you can't just change the name after the fact to mask that fact.
    Gay marriage bans are being torn up left and right.... In the United States. I'm taking a more global, big picture kinda view. Now I'm gonna go ahead and tell you something that might blow your mind so brace yourself... There are other countries in the world out there. Some of them where religious institutions are much more powerful than here.

    You are looking at this from the US-centric point of view but I don't blame you for that. Try getting a country like Uganda to approve of gay marriage and see that in some places religious groups HAVE trademarked that word and only a legal, secular definition has any chance of providing homosexuals anything resembling marriage rights.

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    Senior Member Yes Man Askanison's Avatar
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    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    I can see places like the US and Canada having a few bumps then passing whatever has to be passed to say it is okay for gays to marry. In other countries not so much. In countries like Turkey many are put to death and hanged publicly. Not everyone has the same openness as the US. I say let them be just as miserable as the rest of us.

    Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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    I guess we have come so far from what marriage was in the yester years. You only need to read the news from different localities to understand how things have gotten out of control. People today marry animals and think that it is okay as long as it is within their rights.

    When things were ordinary, marriage was between a man and a woman of legal age. Today a man can marry another man and most people will not raise an eyebrow. It will be celebrated in the open and people will go back to their own lives. So the bottom line is there is no conclusive description of what a marriage is. It is defined by the parties involved and life continues.

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    I feel like if two people love each other even if they are the same sex they should be able to get married. Also I believe that if two people are not in love and want to get married because they both agree that it would be beneficial to both of them they should be able to marry as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmiller View Post
    I feel like if two people love each other even if they are the same sex they should be able to get married. Also I believe that if two people are not in love and want to get married because they both agree that it would be beneficial to both of them they should be able to marry as well.
    GET OUT OF HERE WITH YOUR REASONABLE VIEWS!!!!!

    Nah, I'm just kidding. My mottos include "Live and Let Live" and "Don't sweat the small stuff". If more people would stop caring so much about what other people choose to do with their lives, our would would be a better, more chill place.

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    Member Gang Member Livvy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayrockwell91 View Post
    G
    You are looking at this from the US-centric point of view but I don't blame you for that. Try getting a country like Uganda to approve of gay marriage and see that in some places religious groups HAVE trademarked that word and only a legal, secular definition has any chance of providing homosexuals anything resembling marriage rights.
    Except people are pushing for gay marriage in countries like Uganda. And you're still taking a far too US-centric, or even Eurocentic view of these things.

    Put it like this, a common phrase used in countries like Uganda or Nigeria by anti-homosexual activists is 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!'

    Now...where do you think that phrase comes from? Because I'll tell you what, you won't find many Steve's in Uganda.

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    Member Roadie DoulaChic79's Avatar
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    In the state of Florida, big strides are being made towards the legalization of gay marriage. I haven't kept up on it recently, and I'm not sure if it changed but I'm looking forward to it. I'm an interfaith minister and want to officiate a few weddings pro bono.

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    Member Roadie metanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mythman View Post
    But 'the legality of marriage' isn't a human-matter! If you and another person want to be life-partners, what difference does it make whether anyone recognizes your union? And human rights? What about my right not to recognize any marriage I don't witness?
    Who says you have to recognize gay marriage? Making it legal only means the government has to recognize it, and business, but not individuals. I don't get why people who aren't gay care so much about this. If you aren't gay then whether gay marriage is legal or not doesn't affect you in any way. If it's legal nothing changes for you, so why care.

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    Senior Member Yes Man troutski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayrockwell91 View Post
    Gay marriage bans are being torn up left and right.... In the United States. I'm taking a more global, big picture kinda view. Now I'm gonna go ahead and tell you something that might blow your mind so brace yourself... There are other countries in the world out there. Some of them where religious institutions are much more powerful than here.

    You are looking at this from the US-centric point of view but I don't blame you for that. Try getting a country like Uganda to approve of gay marriage and see that in some places religious groups HAVE trademarked that word and only a legal, secular definition has any chance of providing homosexuals anything resembling marriage rights.
    What are you talking about? The OP specifically mentions AMERICA. Of course I'm going to take a US-centric view on something that's referring directly to America.

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    Member Roadie mythman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muthoni View Post
    ... So the bottom line is there is no conclusive description of what a marriage is. It is defined by the parties involved and life continues.
    No, marriage is defined by every mind that thinks of it. I'm asking WHAT MARRIAGE IS FOR!! If two people's marriage doesn't involve The People, why do couples-who-want-to-be-married CARE that The People license it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoulaChic79 View Post
    In the state of Florida, big strides are being made towards the legalization of gay marriage. I haven't kept up on it recently, and I'm not sure if it changed but I'm looking forward to it. I'm an interfaith minister and want to officiate a few weddings pro bono.
    What's stopping you? I mean, I know you can't truthfully say "by the power vested in me by the state of Florida, I now pronounce you Mated," but if two roommates want to 'go public' and 'have the ceremony' ... isn't that the kind of thing that 'the separation of church & state' was really for?

    Quote Originally Posted by metanor View Post
    Who says you have to recognize gay marriage? Making it legal only means the government has to recognize it, and business, but not individuals. I don't get why people who aren't gay care so much about this. If you aren't gay then whether gay marriage is legal or not doesn't affect you in any way. If it's legal nothing changes for you, so why care.
    I'm talking about America (specifically, Oklahoma). Just like the Green-family believes it would be "approving of abortion" if it provided the health-coverage commanded by the ACA to all of the employees of their company "HOBBY LOBBY," I feel like I would be "approving of homosexuality" if my government officially recognized homosexual marriage.

    Just like college-graduates don't want non-graduate to have all the same rights as they spent years earning, heterosexual marrieds don't want homosexual couples to have all of THEIR rights.

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    Member Roadie
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    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It is true that if you and your couple want to be life-partners, it certainly does not make any difference if someone does not recognize it. But on the other hand, that should also be applied to straight marriage, so I do have the right not to recognize that too. The fight on same-sex marriage is not whether it should be accepted or not by population, it is in fact a matter of rights. Since Constituion states that we are all equal, that equality should apply to every aspect of our lifes.

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    Super Moderator Yes Man Kae's Avatar
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    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    The saintity of Marriage is delicate and sacred matter. I am not surprised that so many groups want to redefine what Marriage is and how to make it conform to their own standards. To me, Marriage is a promise between whomever. I am married to my career. Cheers.

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